doctor_j_crane | [60]

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[60] - [Voice]

For reasons totally unrelated to the recent flood, I've recently turned my mind to the issue of barge romantic relationships. [Crane sounds awkward just saying it.] Frankly, I'm confused as to why anyone could ever think that it ever would work out. Ignoring numerous public examples of messy arguments between wardens and inmates alike, I've never in my experience heard of a prison being described as a good dating environment. While the inmates do obviously suffer a certain lack of options, it's the wardens that persist in romantic liaisons that surprise me.

How can your supposed relationships have real meaning if they have an expiration date date? Or would you be willing to give up your family, friends and universe for one person who seemed like a good option while you were in a prison? You can believe me when I say that it isn't only unrealistic, it's unhealthy. It's no more valuable than a relationship forged in a war zone, done by the same messy necessity and a certain need to settle for what is available, no matter how substandard. It's disturbing how easily you all seem to give in to the delusion that it means something. It doesn't. It just has that sliver more meaning than the rest of your pointless existence on the barge. Furthermore, it's a disservice to your inmates and not to mention a failure in your duties as wardens. You're not here to find meaningful relationships with each other. You're supposed to be helping us.

[Pause. Crane sounds slightly more amused.] I hadn't done this in a while. It's highly therapeutic for me to tell you all the ways that you're wrong. I recommend it highly to other inmates.

[Private- Edward Nygma]

It could be slightly related to the flood. [The longest pause.] I'm not sure that I want to talk about it. I do apologize though.

[OOC: Whoops, going to do that post and run thing. Will be back in eight hours, after sleep. <3]

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I think you have to approach it with a lack of illusions in the matter. Perhaps it is just a matter of having someone you can rely on, and someone you can count on, no matter what. I have said quite a bit of this before, I imagine, but I think sometimes... I'd never have any relationship here that I wouldn't at home.

But you're also right that the parameters are different. You can't really con yourself that this is home, or a normal world, or a particularly nice one where relationships work, and work in a usual, functional manner. I don't think it means it's substandard, I think you're just working with what you can and making the best of it.

I have no doubt in saying that anyone I did have a relationship here with is... someone I'd have done the same with in the real world. But, I'd never expect them to choose me, and here, over the real world. That's treating this place like a home - and it isn't. It's too transient, too unstable, and too dangerous to do that. That doesn't quite stand in the way of serious, real emotions, though.

So I don't think I agree with you, but you're not entirely wrong, either.

The first challenger appears. We'll keep this public, I think. No offense intended, Sergeant, I just don't want to explain myself too many times.

The key difference is that I'm not talking about simple friendships. I'm talking about deeply emotional relationships, that if anything, increases the chances of violence on the barge. Two wardens are in a relationship and one gets attacked. Their partner accordingly murders the inmate who performed the attack. The warden populous naturally does nothing. Thus, the institution of warden romantic relationships is a threat to inmates well being and the justice system of the barge.

The inherent problem regarding the second part of your argument is that the transient, unstable nature of these relationships means that by rights, anyone taking part in such a relationship should remain at a distance. But do they? Somehow I doubt that they would. Wardens don't seem to think that far ahead.

I think the warden populous should do something, as we should at least know better than to indulge in revenge, no matter of the situation. I understand what you're saying, but a relationship should not get in the way of doing the right thing, and the right thing in terms of your duty.

I'm not sure distance is the solution - let me make it clear - I think it's perfectly natural that people in a high stress situation are going to look for someone to share that with, going to look for... well, you can't exactly stop love. I said the barge was transient and unstable - not that the relationships had to follow the same pattern. A relationship can actually provide some consistency and stability to the situation. I do think, however, that you have to be aware of the situation you're working in - that there's power relationships involved too, there's matters of professionalism, there's the possibility they might just up and disappear on you, and there's the possibility that you might end up having to part ways consensually.

That being said - not all of those are much different to the real world. Power relationships - If I'm in a relationship with any civilian, they have to realise I have a duty to the law. Equally, I have to be professional if I have a relationship with a colleague. It's also just as possible in the real world that someone might unexpectedly die on you. [he knows that one. :/] As for the latter... I think that's where the main difference happens.

There are numerous at least's on the tip of my tongue. I'll share them for your peace of mind:

At least there was no forced reciprocation.

At least we didn't fornicate.

At least I wasn't a woman/cat/alien.

At least there was no toxin involved.

At least we can move on.

Feeling better? Good, because this is the one and only time it will come up in conversation.

[He waits a beat.]

I do agree with your emotional outburst, however. Relationships are perilous at the best of times. At the worst-- and we're currently residing in the worst-- they're teetering on the edge of irresponsible. I wouldn't advise it unless you're prepared to dismiss that individual as a fling if they disappear.

I don't ever want to talk about it again. But yes. Thankfully nothing on that list occurred.

I suppose the same argument is equally valid in terms of friendship. But frankly, this seems more likely to draw wardens into an argument where they're clearly wrong.

I would agree with you, save for the fact that the other wardens aren't operating at the same standard as you are. Most of them are selfish, pretty and cruel. The right thing isn't relevant to what they do.

It's mainly these issues of power relations that are concerning. We'll ignore the issue of warden and inmate relationships, which is clearly an abuse of power whenever it occurs. Provided we follow the assumption that a warden's primary duty is to their inmate, which our one-on-one situation does suggest, the moment that you start a relationship with another warden and value someone equally to your inmate you're failing your duty as a warden.

It is simply to the real world, I'll agree with that. But it's more extreme and it affects others more than any wardens care to admit.

Edited 2011-06-30 14:00 (UTC)

I... beg to differ, I don't think most of them are. [but he won't say none] There are plenty of us trying to maintain that the right thing comes first.

I think you have a very good point - and I certainly think, in entering a relationship here, you have to be aware that your duty does come first, and the person you're in a relationship with's inmate comes first too. If you fail to do that, then yes - you are failing in your duty, there's no doubt about it. I think it also pays to be honest with your inmates about it, as it is a matter of ulterior motives, and whether you have any or not.

To be honest, everything here is... a magnification of the real world, and I think we do have to be realistic - I don't think it inherently means a relationship is a bad idea, though.

We'll have to agree to differ on that.

The world must be ending in regard to your second point, as I agree with you. But the fact remains that there's no way of ensuring that wardens do the right thing. I don't know if it's common practice to consult your inmates regarding relationships, but I imagine that it's not.

Do you currently have any ongoing relationships, Sergeant?

I think we ought to keep an eye out for the Horsemen.

There isn't, no, and I can't speak for anyone else on that, unfortunately.

That's none of your business, Crane. Needless to say, if I did, I would have been open and honest with the people who it did effect. Anyone else, I would have no professional reason to make it public knowledge, unless it was affecting my general judgement.

If that makes sense to you, Crane.

If only the Admiral would declare a warden in charge, everyone's lives would be that bit easier.

You sound a little defensive, if you ask me.

Friendships can be fleeting without lasting emotional consequences. Burning bridges is a guaranteed expense of advancing in life, but I presume the relationship between a man and woman is much less tenuous. There's more to lose with someone you enjoy enough to spend the remained of your life with.

[He might sound a little bit forlorn.]

That being the opinion of a neutral perspective. I don't much care for soul-mate searching on an intergalactic spacecraft.

Edited 2011-06-30 14:24 (UTC)

We should be able to exercise some sort of collective authority in absence of a hierarchy. In my view, the way we treat each other is a matter of responsibility for every warden. Not just one.

It's simply a matter of my own personal professional standards that I don't have to tell you that.

Does it work? Is there some sort of voting system?

Oh, dear. I think I should try and guess. I'd say Angelica Sexby, if you weren't so scrupulous. I'm sure that you'd both have similar views.

That's what I'm most concerned about. It can only serve to make the wardens even more unstable than they already are. Not to mention that they'll be sensitive about it as well. [Thus, a good place to troll.]

Are you soul-mate searching in general? [Part trolling, part curious.]

There is. ~~When it works~~

She's a married woman, Crane. Good Lord. And we were having such a sensible discussion, too.

Even if you guess, I'm not obliged to go into it.

Or, you could make plans to not have to pick one world over another, because asking someone to do that is not fair, which not that it's any of your business, but we have.

If my inmate has a problem with it, then she can address me with it. As for everything else, Crane, just troll harder.

That's mainly why I chose her. You're so easy to provoke.

I would suggest your inmate as my second guess, but I think that might be taking it a little too far even by my standards.

Wardens should know better than to get into that situation in the first place. They shouldn't have to choose one over the other because the inmate should always be the first choice. Isn't that why you're here?

Have you ever asked your inmate if she has a problem with it?

[Pause] And could you clarify what you mean by 'troll'?

That's even more horrific a suggestion. It is taking it far too far, and if you're trying to provoke me into answering your question, you can stop now.

I will, since you asked so nicely. If it's any consolation, I know you're not really seeing anyone.

Why must you ask questions with obvious answers.

I'll assume that's a no, then.

...And now you're trying to encourage me to contradict you. You're quite good at this, Crane.

[Private]

I do think you had a legitimate point. It shouldn't be dismissed.

I'm taking that as a compliment.

[Private]

Oh, it will be. I strongly suspect that it's half because it's me saying it.

Most people don't chose the times and places where they fall in love, Crane. I know I didn't.

Trolling: it's when you make a post to just make people upset, to cause problems and to get attention for yourself. In other words pretty much every post you make.

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Crane: attempting to make trolling into a legitimate barge sport.

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...He is the top contender for the gold!